“Up to the Mountains and Down to the Villages” An Interview with Wei Haobo

Haobo Wei: West-Line Studio has long worked directly with the complex geography and traditional settlements of many ethnic groups in southwestern China. These are precious resources for our work. We undertake detailed analyses of vernacular models shaped over time: Zhaoxing Dong Village, for example, reflects the Dong people's hekuan system of social organisation; Xijiang Thousand-Household Miao Village reflects Miao mountain worship and an ethical order of seniority; and Tunpu settlements reflect the Ming dynasty's military-agricultural settlement system. By analysing vernacular models produced by different geographical relationships and different community lifeworlds, we have gradually identified common ground in their approaches to building. From this we developed our basic working model of ‘geographical order + community model + atmosphere-making + composite construction’. Attention to geographical order seeks to develop, under contemporary conditions, the topographical strategies and grouping methods through which traditional settlements fit their particular geography. Establishing a community model aims to maintain the relative stability, sustainability and distinctiveness of community social structures. Emphasising atmosphere-making aims to produce public spaces with a clear sense and texture of place. Composite construction, combining geographically grounded tectonic prototypes with generally applicable construction methods, gradually explores ways of building that bring home-grown local tectonic habits into step with the technological environment of contemporary society, enabling technology to serve more specific lifeworlds. Establishing this basic model helps maintain the original conditions and emotional texture of geographically grounded sites. More importantly, within contemporary universalised society, it helps sustain an existential structure in which geographical order and the spirit of place coexist. It protects the human framework of local habitats and seeks ways to reconstruct geographically grounded community models within a dual social structure: one universalised, the other based on kinship.

魏浩波：西线工作室长期直面中国西南地区复杂地缘与多民族的传统聚落，这些是我们宝贵的工作资源。透过对时间沉淀下的乡土模型的具体分析，如侗族合款社会制度投射下的肇兴侗寨、苗族“山岳崇拜”与长卑伦理制度投射下的西江千户苗寨、明代军屯制投射下的屯堡等，对这些不同地缘关系与不同共同体生活世界所导致的乡土模型的分析，逐步发现这些不同乡土模型建造思维的共性，由此发展出“地缘秩序+共同体模型＋ 氛围制造+复合建造”的基本工作模型，即注重地缘秩序是试图在当代条件下发展传统聚落同特殊地缘相契合的地形策略与成组方式；建立共同体模型是保持共同体社会结构相对稳定与可持续、差异性；强调氛围制造目的则在于生产具有清晰场所质感的公共空间；贯彻地缘建构原型+通用建造方式的复合建造是逐渐探索土生土长地方性建构惯性，与当代社会技术环境同步的建造方法，使技术能为更具体的生活世界服务。这一基本工作模型的建立，既有利于保持地缘场地的存在原境与情绪质感的稳定，更有助于在当代普世社会背景下保持地缘秩序与场所精神共生的存在结构有效地保护地缘生境的人文骨架，并寻找在双重社会结构（普适型+血缘型）背景下地缘共同体模型再建的方法。

Haobo Wei: The value of subcultural circles lies in the following condition. In contemporary society, habits shaped by the kinship systems and geographical structures of traditional rural society have been displaced by generally applicable habits within a universalised society. Against this wider background, those traditional structures have been reduced to small, vulnerable subcultural circles. These diverse circles provide the soil in which ‘living’ traditions can continue to exist, but they face the danger of being gradually stifled and replaced by the routine model of universalised social structures, generally applicable habits and standardised technological practice. The key to retaining each cultural circle is a system of places that materialises the model of its community's public lifeworld. The British cultural scholar Raymond Williams proposed the idea that ‘culture is life’, understanding the essence of culture as a way of life. Ways of life provide a cohesive force that can generate regional belonging and are also central to social stability. Establishing a system of places for public life is extremely important for passing on each distinctive subcultural circle's culture and history, as well as sustaining its people's ways of living and interacting. Take the Dong drum tower, for example. Rising into the clouds with its many tiers of eaves, it establishes a landmark emblem of the clan through its height. It is also the clan's sacred place for solemn rituals, major decisions, diplomatic activities and the adjudication of justice. Painted clay figures between its densely layered eaves vividly tell the history and myths of the people. In short, in a geographically grounded society already permeated by commerce and economic concerns, and in this particular era, traditions of the public lifeworld within subcultural circles are difficult to sustain or re-present without a material system of places to support them.

魏浩波：次文化圈层的价值在于，在当代社会条件下，受传统乡土社会血缘系统与地缘结构影响的习性，已经被普适社会条件下的普适习性所置换，其在普世社会的大背景下退化为弱小的次文化圈结构；这些多样的次文化圈层是养育“活态"传统继续存在的土壤，但却正面临着逐渐被扼杀，被普适社会结构＋普适习性+标准化技术实践常态模式取代的危险。保有各个文化圈层的关键，是投射各共同体公共生活世界模型物化的场所系统。英国文化学者雷蒙德（Raymond Williams）曾提出“文化即生活”的理念，他认为文化的本质是生活方式。生活方式是可以产生地域归属感的内聚力，亦是社会稳定的核心要素，公共生活场所系统的建立对传承每个特有次文化圈的文化、历史，以及延续所属人群的生活及交往方式非常重要。以侗族的鼓楼为例，高耸入云的多重檐鼓楼不仅从高度上建立了聚落的地标性族徽，更是崇高仪式、重大决策、外交活动、裁决公理的家族神圣地，层层密檐间的彩绘泥塑，生动表述着本民族的历史与神话故事。简言之，在已被商业化、经济化渗透的地缘社会和特殊年代里，如果没有物化的场所系统作为依托，次文化圈公共生活世界的传统难以维系与再现。

Haobo Wei: Vernacular thinking and technological thinking are, in fact, two forces that coexist and constrain one another. Vernacular thinking is characterised by: 1. valuing geographical structures; 2. attending to models of the lifeworld; 3. establishing geographical order; 4. sustaining existence; and 5. a sense of belonging. Technological thinking is characterised by: 1. logical processes; 2. standardisation and institutionalisation; 3. efficiency; 4. systematic organisation; 5. progress; and 6. wider applicability. The framework of ‘vernacular character + a perspective on technology’ is concerned with the ways in which diverse community circles exist, while also making full use of the operational capacity of technological systems built by capital and power. At the same time, it effectively restrains technology's tendency to operate for its own sake, allowing it to serve a greater diversity of human lifeworlds. This framework is especially meaningful in western China, where complex geographical conditions, diverse vernacular models and rich contemporary pluralities intersect. West-Line Studio's Chetian Cultural Center is a concrete outcome of this approach. On one hand, it reconstructs public places in the village through established local conventions and develops traditional stone masonry. On the other, it introduces contemporary concrete technology, coloured glass and metal, together with technical codes and theories of place. In other words, contemporary design thinking and generally applicable construction technologies actively accommodate ancient vernacular crafts. This neither abandons those crafts entirely nor stubbornly commits everything to the ‘past’. In short, we seek to develop ways of combining rational professional methods with grounded working practices under contemporary conditions of production, so that ‘rationalised’, universally applicable modes of spatial production and traditional villages concerned with ‘feeling’ can reach a tacit understanding of ‘harmony without uniformity’.

魏浩波：乡土的思维和技术思维实际上是两股力量，这两股力量同时并存，相互制约。乡土思维的特点：1、重视地缘结构；2、关注生活世界的模型；3、建立地缘秩序；4、可续生存；5、归宿感。而技术思维的特点则是：1、逻辑性流程；2、规范化制度化；3、效率性；4、系统性；5、进步性；6、推广性。“乡土性”+“技术观”的工作框架，既关心多样性的共同体圈层的存在方式，亦能充分发挥资本力量与权利力量所建构的技术体系的运作力，同时也有效地遏制着技术的自为力量，使之更多地为多样性人类“生活世界”服务。这样的工作框架对于复杂地缘条件、多样性乡土模型与丰富的当代性多元交融的中国西部尤有意义。西线工作室的车田村文化中心就是这种工作框架导向的具体结果，一方面以“约定俗成”方式再建了村落的公共性场所，发展了传统的石砌工艺；另一方面将当代的混凝土技术、彩色玻璃、金属材质等，与技术规范、场所理论投射其中，即以当代的设计观念及通用建造技术，积极收纳古老的乡土工艺，既不是对后者的完全遗弃，也不是固执地全身心投入“过去”。简而言之，是试图发展如何在当代生产条件下用理性的专业手段+“接地气”的工作方法，让“合理化”的普适性空间生产方式与关注“情感”的传统村落两者达成某种“和而不同”的默契。

Haobo Wei: The framework of ‘vernacular character + a perspective on technology’ makes it clear that West-Line's working methods are largely home-grown. They necessarily involve analysing local resources, developing responses and judging the appropriate degree of intervention. When working with technically weaker construction teams, we generally adopt a set of anticipatory measures against errors: proactive safeguards devised in advance according to the particular construction task and the team's basic abilities. At the Huangpidong Martyrs' Memorial, for example, construction control for several concrete walls deliberately incorporated such precautions. The project is in a relatively remote mountainous area and had a budget of only 300,000–400,000 yuan. The construction team's technical capabilities were correspondingly limited, and it had no experience with exposed concrete. Our choice of site-mixed concrete was based on several considerations: 1. access and transportation were extremely difficult; 2. the area's high temperature, humidity and strong corrosive conditions also make stone prone to discolouration and mould; 3. site-mixed concrete can readily use local materials and sit comfortably within the mountain setting; and 4. concrete requires no maintenance and develops a naturally weathered character over time. We established three lines of defence for constructing the site-mixed concrete walls. First, the drawings and on-site briefings specified the formwork dimensions, pouring methods and use of release agents in detail, and we agreed the construction procedure with the team. Second, we strictly controlled the vertical and horizontal alignment of the four corners of each wall segment during pouring. Third, we deliberately arranged an ordered constellation of red five-pointed stars recessed into the concrete walls. Together, these formed an effective preventive system. The first instilled an awareness of rigorous construction and effective techniques. The second ensured the integrity of each wall segment by controlling its corners. The third used the bright red stars to transform the potentially extensive surface effects of formwork failure and concrete collapse into a meaningful wall texture. The final result was good. West-Line Studio has worked with a variety of traditional local materials: timber at Bing’an Memorial, Danxia stone masonry at Wuzhufeng Visitor Service Station, bluestone at Chetian Cultural Center, and bamboo at the Bamboo Forest landscape buildings. We also have experience with generally available materials such as exposed concrete, glass and metal. Our use of materials nevertheless tends to be grounded in practical reason. Probing the potential of common materials and exploring and developing their tectonic possibilities can often produce excellent design quality.

魏浩波：“乡土性”+“技术观”的工作框架清楚地表明西线的工作方法有很大程度上是土生土长的，必然对当地资源有分析、有对策，更有“度”的拿捏。面对技术相对薄弱的施工团队通常有一套惯常的预错做法，即根据具体建造的特点与施工队伍的基本水准，预先设立一套主动防错措施。如黄陂洞烈士纪念场项目中，几段混凝土墙体的施工控制就“蓄意"组织了这种预防措施。由于该项目地处较偏僻的山里，投资仅三四十万，施工队伍技术力量当然也相对弱些，尚未有处理清水混凝土的经验。当时在该处使用自拌混凝土材料主要基于几点考虑：1、该地交通运输极为困难；2、该地高温高湿度，强腐蚀，石材也易变色生霉；3、自拌混凝土易就地取材，并易与山体环境默契；4、混凝土材料无需维护，天长日久，生成自然的沧桑感。而自拌混凝土墙体施工控制防线为：1、图纸上与现场交底详细交待模板的规格、浇注方式与脱模剂的使用，并与施工队共同确定施工方案；2、对墙段四角严格控制浇注的垂直度与水平度；3、刻意组织一群有序布点红色五星群阴刻于混凝土墙体上。这3道防线共同形成一套有效的预防体系：防线1在于向施工队灌输严格施工意识与有效的施工技术；防线2通过控制四角进而确保墙段的整体性；防线3以鲜红的五角星群有效地将有可能大面积爆模坍落现象转化为有意味的质感墙体。最终达到了较好效果。西线工作室完成了多种传统地方性原生材料的实践：木结构的丙安纪念馆、丹霞石砌筑五柱峰游客服务站、青石砌造的车田村文化中心、使用竹材料的竹海景观建筑等。在通用材料上也有清水混凝土、玻璃、金属材料等经验，而对材料的应用上还是倾向于依据现实合理性，对常用材料潜能的深入挖掘与建构方式的摸索与发展，往往能产生很好的设计品质。

Haobo Wei: In my experience, for major public buildings and government projects, a design team should place greater emphasis on comprehensive professional competence, standardised design procedures, an understanding of the relevant laws and regulations, ways of communicating its ideals, and experience in controlling construction, among other things. All of these help the team retain initiative in a project through exchanges and negotiations.

魏浩波：依个人经验，在重要公建、政府项目中，设计团队当更重视全面的专业性、设计流程的规范化、相关法规的理解力、IDEAL传达的方式，以及对施工的控制经验等等，这些都有助于在交流与博弈中掌握对项目的主动权。

Haobo Wei: In Frampton's important book Modern Architecture: A Critical History, the fifth section of Part Three is titled ‘Critical Regionalism’, with the subtitle ‘Modern Architecture and Cultural Identity’. This suggests, to some extent, a locally grounded modernism. The section opens with the Danish architect Jørn Utzon's Bagsværd Church. Through analysing its prefabricated concrete assembly, vaulted spaces reminiscent of Nordic churches, diffuse light like the rolling layers of cloud above Nordic seas, and faint Chinese inflections, Frampton conveys an appreciation of an approach that begins with regional conditions yet also transcends them, achieving an understanding between universal technology and a particular regional situation. It acknowledges the discipline of universal civilisation while affirming the value of specific cultures. In the process of cultural grafting, it preserves, integrates, reflects on and develops tradition.

魏浩波：弗兰姆普顿在其重要著作《现代建筑：一部批判的历史》一书中，第三篇第五节题为：“批判的地域主义”，副标题则是：“现代建筑与文化认同”，这多少有些现代主义在地性的意味。此节开篇即以丹麦建筑师伍重的巴斯韦尔德教堂为例，透过对这座教堂所采用预制混凝土装配结构、类北欧教堂的拱顶空间、类北欧海平面上那层积云翻卷着的漫射光照，以及隐约中国韵味等等的剖析，传达出对这种从地域条件出发，同时又超越地域条件，在普世技术与地域状态间达成默契。一方面肯定了普世文明的规训，一方面又宣布了特殊文化的价值，更在文化嫁接的过程中保有、融和、反思与发展传统。

Haobo Wei: Perhaps it relates to one's own working circumstances. West-Line Studio normally works half in cities and half in the countryside. Architectural work always confronts different situations, and experience of these situations is precisely what develops a builder's capacity for thought and distinctiveness. Considering the countryside as one kind of working situation is meaningful. It also implies adjustments in experience and transformations in methods of investigation and work. For architects, ‘reflection’ is actually a habitual process, and its subjects are close at hand. Analysing reality, reflecting on reality and developing reality form a continuous sequence.

魏浩波：可能与自身的工作状态有关吧，西线工作室的工作常态是一半在城市，一半在乡村。建筑工作从来都是在直面不同处境，正是这些不同处境的经验造就了建筑者的思考力与差异性。以乡村作为一类工作处境来思考其实是蛮有意义的，这也就意味着经验的调整与调查方法、工作方式的转型。“反思”对建筑者而言其实是一种惯性，“反思”的对象就在身边。分析现实、反思现实、发展现实是连贯的。

Haobo Wei: The greatest difference between working environments in eastern and western China is the lack, in the west, of a healthy professional operating system and professional talent. The east has a favourable professional environment, sound design systems and management, construction organisations with relatively high technical standards, and comparatively fair assessments of design. In the west, professional competence is uneven, young talent is extremely scarce, construction is half industrial and half vernacular, and personal networks are very important. Competition in the eastern regions is also intense. Pressure in the working environment fosters a strong culture of learning among architects, with powerful incentives for self-directed study and replenishing one's knowledge. The west is weaker in this respect. Finally, a lack of confidence in traditional culture, together with blind admiration for new things and ways of life from elsewhere, means that design in the west still tends simply to take the east and coastal regions as its reference. Mechanical imitation makes it difficult to distinguish the directions and problems specific to oneself and to design development. Consequently, in the current context of the large-scale development of western China, professional awareness, staffing and the abilities of construction teams have become constraints on the building process. To address these problems, we must find our own professional ways of dealing with reality. On one hand, genuine knowledge comes from practice. On the other, the growth of modern architecture in the west now requires a system and tradition of sustained theoretical analysis. We must gradually regenerate and establish construction methods suited to local resources and realities, and distinct from those of other regions.

魏浩波：东部与西部工作环境的最大区别是缺少良性的专业运作体系与专业人才。东部有良好的业态环境，设计体系、设计管理健全，施工技术单位水准比较高，设计评判相对公平；但在西部，专业人员素质良莠不齐，年轻人才极度匮乏，半工业化半乡土建造，人脉圈子很重要；再有，东部地区的行业竞争激烈，工作环境的压力促使建筑师群体内部有很好的学习风气，自我学习与自我补充的动力强，西部地区在这方面则较弱；最后，由于对传统文化的不自信，以及对新生事物和外来生活状态盲目崇拜，导致西部设计倾向还是简单地以东部和沿海地区为参照，机械式的模仿，不能分辨自身和设计发展中的方向与问题，所以造成在当前西部大开发的背景下，专业意识、人才配备及施工团队的能力水平成为建设进程中的约束。针对西部问题，要寻找自己的专业处理现实的方法：一方面，实践出真知；另一方面，西部现代建筑的成长目前需要建立一个理论分析持续发展系统和传统，逐渐再生与建立一套适应当地现实资源状态的、同其他地区有差异性的建造方式。

Haobo Wei: In an ethnic-minority area of Qiannan, Guizhou, West-Line Studio is completing a relatively large group of buildings that carries through the working model of ‘geographical order + community model + atmosphere-making + composite construction’. The area has rich ritual traditions, a distinctive ethnic script and complex terrain and landforms, making it a particularly representative setting. Unfortunately, it has also been eroded by extensive homogenised construction. West-Line is trying to retain and develop the traditions that once existed there. We seem to be at a moment when modernism is becoming increasingly refined and sensitive, and is interpenetrating with local character.

魏浩波：在贵州黔南的民族地区，西线工作室正在完成一组贯彻“地缘秩序+ 共同体模型+氛围制造＋ 复合建造”工作模型较大规模的建筑群。这个地区有着丰富的祭祀习俗、独特的民族文字与复杂地形地貌，很是典型。但遗憾的是该地区亦被大面积的同质化建设所侵蚀，西线正试图保有与发展当地曾经的传统。我们似乎正处于现代主义逐渐精深、敏感，与地方性相互渗透的时间节点上。